Newsfiend
08-07-2009, 05:01 PM
Bluepill_ROV wrote:
For the benefit of clarity, neither your post nor my quote of it contained the word 'only' and I'm sure you have no time to quibble over the semantics of perception in a fantasy role playing game. Suffice to say I think we can agree that perception is the 'only' thing there is.
For instance a player perceives that a merc only experiences lag server side and determines that this is much less detrimental in game play than a player cleric that may occasionally have a client side lag spike. The perception is that the merc is more capable.
A player cleric needs to suddenly deal with a real life situation that may interrupt group play for an undermined period of time. A player concludes that a merc certainly appears more capable of game continuity.
A player notices that a cleric merc's heals always land when mana is present and always for a predictable and predetermined amount. What perception does this enforce?
A player notes that his/her cleric merc is available at any time of the day or night and perceives that the merc is more capable of fulfilling his/her needs in this regard as well.
These may or may not be among the key observations you wrote of in your responding post, but shall we for a moment take into consideration also that there are player clerics of varying degree of skill and level and experience in game, as well as players that have not achieved the spell sets and gear that match the base standard that these cleric mercs are pre-ordained with at what ever the competing level may be?
My point is, making a blanket statement like "Human players are more capable than bots.", has a sense of uniformed finality about it that gives the reader pause to think perhaps all the facts might not have been taken into account. Don't get me wrong here, I'm sure in a lot of instances this statement would be true but not at all times.
Reading your response also leads one to believe that mercs will in fact be upgraded with the new cleric spells in the next expansion. It is my opinion based on the effective use of cleric mercs exceeding expectation in this expansion, pre-judging how effective they may be with new spell abilities is ill-advised.
I appreciate the pursuit of your endeavor to keep the cleric class a fun and unique role to play in Everquest and I understand the responsibility of development to extend this endeavor to all classes in the game, so I will try to be more flexible toward responses that seem outwardly placating (within reason) ;p
Bluepill
Just a quick rejoinder:
0. (You're correct, I don't have time to quibble over the semantics but language is important, people are going to be parsing every statement I make very carefully, and it pays to get this stuff right. We'll see how well I do.)
1. To clarify the clarification: When I speak to the need to 'mitigate a perception', what I mean is that whatever stimuli that is creating the perception requires some sort of results-oriented action. This being the format where large sweeping changes can be very upsetting, 'action' will probably end up being something of the 'baby steps' variety, and more likely things that will be added in the future rather than addressing the past. I also do not seek to 'mitigate perceptions' by offering kind words (or various forms of mind-control) as a solution.
2. The problems you mentioned with mercs were exactly what I had in mind when I said that key observations have been noted. During development of the mercenary system I recall insisting that enough hesitation and/or randomness would be built into the AI that the mercs would not be seen as being superior to human players including suggestions for them to go randomly /afk or start rattling off inane conversation dialogues. Even without a few of those limitations, though, I stand by the statement that humans are more capable with the class than the bot is. *Capable* != *Better in all cases* and obviously there is a bar there that mercs have set for newbie human clerics to outperform. However, I also think this challenge joins a bunch of other challenges for the new EQ player including some that the mercs were introduced to alleviate in the first place.
3. My philosophy as of now (mine alone, and subject to change at a moment's notice for reasons I may not be able to successfully influence) is that cleric mercs are powerful enough with their gear and access to spells, that I feel comfortable holding the mercs where they are for now. The new cleric spells were designed for the enjoyment of human clerics.
4. If there are plans to expand the merc concept in the future, going forward I would be *inclined* to suggest non-archetypical classes rather than mirrors of players classes (like "Dwarven Hecklers", "Discord Mages", "Siren Charmers" or other fanciful notions. These might be merc classes that would be useful to gameplay some of the time, not so useful some of the time, and doing something totally unproductive but hilarious/weird/annoying some of the time).
I salute your thorough and cogent response to my brief and heretofore intentionally obtuse input, and will endeavor to live up to the goals I have put forward for myself with regards to clerics, and am delighted to hear that my efforts to communicate with the playerbase in something more fulfilling than DevSpeak1.0 will be met with flexibility and appreciation (within reason). http://www.mapfiend.net/eq/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif
More... (http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=151772&post_id=2258020#2258020)
For the benefit of clarity, neither your post nor my quote of it contained the word 'only' and I'm sure you have no time to quibble over the semantics of perception in a fantasy role playing game. Suffice to say I think we can agree that perception is the 'only' thing there is.
For instance a player perceives that a merc only experiences lag server side and determines that this is much less detrimental in game play than a player cleric that may occasionally have a client side lag spike. The perception is that the merc is more capable.
A player cleric needs to suddenly deal with a real life situation that may interrupt group play for an undermined period of time. A player concludes that a merc certainly appears more capable of game continuity.
A player notices that a cleric merc's heals always land when mana is present and always for a predictable and predetermined amount. What perception does this enforce?
A player notes that his/her cleric merc is available at any time of the day or night and perceives that the merc is more capable of fulfilling his/her needs in this regard as well.
These may or may not be among the key observations you wrote of in your responding post, but shall we for a moment take into consideration also that there are player clerics of varying degree of skill and level and experience in game, as well as players that have not achieved the spell sets and gear that match the base standard that these cleric mercs are pre-ordained with at what ever the competing level may be?
My point is, making a blanket statement like "Human players are more capable than bots.", has a sense of uniformed finality about it that gives the reader pause to think perhaps all the facts might not have been taken into account. Don't get me wrong here, I'm sure in a lot of instances this statement would be true but not at all times.
Reading your response also leads one to believe that mercs will in fact be upgraded with the new cleric spells in the next expansion. It is my opinion based on the effective use of cleric mercs exceeding expectation in this expansion, pre-judging how effective they may be with new spell abilities is ill-advised.
I appreciate the pursuit of your endeavor to keep the cleric class a fun and unique role to play in Everquest and I understand the responsibility of development to extend this endeavor to all classes in the game, so I will try to be more flexible toward responses that seem outwardly placating (within reason) ;p
Bluepill
Just a quick rejoinder:
0. (You're correct, I don't have time to quibble over the semantics but language is important, people are going to be parsing every statement I make very carefully, and it pays to get this stuff right. We'll see how well I do.)
1. To clarify the clarification: When I speak to the need to 'mitigate a perception', what I mean is that whatever stimuli that is creating the perception requires some sort of results-oriented action. This being the format where large sweeping changes can be very upsetting, 'action' will probably end up being something of the 'baby steps' variety, and more likely things that will be added in the future rather than addressing the past. I also do not seek to 'mitigate perceptions' by offering kind words (or various forms of mind-control) as a solution.
2. The problems you mentioned with mercs were exactly what I had in mind when I said that key observations have been noted. During development of the mercenary system I recall insisting that enough hesitation and/or randomness would be built into the AI that the mercs would not be seen as being superior to human players including suggestions for them to go randomly /afk or start rattling off inane conversation dialogues. Even without a few of those limitations, though, I stand by the statement that humans are more capable with the class than the bot is. *Capable* != *Better in all cases* and obviously there is a bar there that mercs have set for newbie human clerics to outperform. However, I also think this challenge joins a bunch of other challenges for the new EQ player including some that the mercs were introduced to alleviate in the first place.
3. My philosophy as of now (mine alone, and subject to change at a moment's notice for reasons I may not be able to successfully influence) is that cleric mercs are powerful enough with their gear and access to spells, that I feel comfortable holding the mercs where they are for now. The new cleric spells were designed for the enjoyment of human clerics.
4. If there are plans to expand the merc concept in the future, going forward I would be *inclined* to suggest non-archetypical classes rather than mirrors of players classes (like "Dwarven Hecklers", "Discord Mages", "Siren Charmers" or other fanciful notions. These might be merc classes that would be useful to gameplay some of the time, not so useful some of the time, and doing something totally unproductive but hilarious/weird/annoying some of the time).
I salute your thorough and cogent response to my brief and heretofore intentionally obtuse input, and will endeavor to live up to the goals I have put forward for myself with regards to clerics, and am delighted to hear that my efforts to communicate with the playerbase in something more fulfilling than DevSpeak1.0 will be met with flexibility and appreciation (within reason). http://www.mapfiend.net/eq/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif
More... (http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=151772&post_id=2258020#2258020)